EP 8: "Hang it Straight"

Hanging art isn’t as simple as hammer, nail, done. In this episode of On the Move: The Art of Interior Installations, Kelly and Caralee explore the hidden complexities behind professional art installation—where precision meets creativity, and every inch matters.

From aligning priceless paintings to engineering support for oversized sculptures, this episode dives into the science of weight, balance, and placement that transforms walls into galleries. Along the way, Kelly shares stories from the field—like the time a velvet sofa stole the spotlight—and Caralee breaks down why art handling requires more than muscle: it takes training, patience, and an eye for detail.

 In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why “eyeballing it” is never an option in professional art installation.
• The tools and techniques pros use to protect artwork and walls.
• The surprising role communication plays between designers, clients, and installers.

Whether you’re a designer looking to wow a client, or a homeowner wondering why that frame keeps tilting, Hang It reveals the secrets behind flawless art placement.

Thank you for tuning in to On the Move – The Art of Installation. If you’re as passionate about details as we are, hit “subscribe,” and join us for insights, stories, and strategy from the field. If you’re ready to work with a team that moves with purpose, professionalism, and polish. Reach out to us at www.caudelle.com or follow us on, Instagram @caudelle_installation. Check out our BLOG, The “WHITE GLOVE JOURNAL”, where you can find our show notes and updates.

Transcript

CARALEE: Welcome back to On The Move, the Art of Installation, a podcast by CAUDELLE Interior Installations, where we impact the details that bring design visions to life one security clip at a time. We're thrilled you're joining us on the steep dive into the world of white glove art installation where placement is precise.

Alignment is everything in levels are our best. Friends. So here at CAUDELLE, we believe that a [00:01:00] perfectly hung piece of art can transform your space. And a crooked one can ruin it. Whether it's, one framed photograph or a full gallery wall, it's not just about making it look good, it's about making it feel right.

We install with intention, accurate measurements, thoughtful layouts, and the right tools for the job, so if you're a designer. Art advisor, project manager, or someone who knows the heartbreak of a wobbly canvas. This episode is for you. Remember when it comes to art, you don't just hang it, but you highlight it.

I'm one of your hosts, CARALEE. 

KELLY: Hey there, I'm Kelly. Today we're gonna talk about the not so simple art of hanging art straight. We're talking gallery walls, standoffs, oversized pieces, and all the things that we bring to an install to make it look effortless. Even though it is anything but. 

CARALEE: Right. So let's start with the toolbox, the holy grail of our installation.

KELLY: How deep are we diving into this one? 

CARALEE: We've hung, everything from [00:02:00] tiny framed sketches to 12 foot wide framed tapestries and acrylic boxes. What are the tools that never leave your truck? 

KELLY: Well, I wouldn't say truck, but a lot of times they're on a plane.

It's true. Your a toolbox, but for me, of course there's a laser level? You know, everybody thinks that that's a have to have and yeah, it kind of is, especially when you're doing. Huge things. Mm-hmm. Or multiple things, stuff like that. Painters tape.

CARALEE: Mm-hmm. 

KELLY: And people are like, okay, what do you need painters tape for? There a variety of different things. You know, if we're having to hang a template or like with standoffs, if you've got 40 pieces that you're having to lay out the standoffs for, I'd much rather market on painter tape that Exactly.

Put the hole in the wall and of, and obviously a tape measure, but 

CARALEE: are you sure you always. A tape measure because I'm pretty sure witness you spotting artwork for a designer to make, you [00:03:00] know, a decision. But you did not use a tape measure.

We had a nice little challenge to see how close you were to 40 inches. Yeah. 

Speaker 3: Let's clarify that exactly. How 

CARALEE: It was more than impressive. It was right on the money. It's literally one of my favorite stories. 

KELLY: That's right, and ding, ding, ding. I wear the DUNCE hat for leaving my tape measure on a job site.

So thank you for letting all of our listeners know, something that happened that I'm not very proud of. 

CARALEE: Well, the tape measure we borrowed, just reinforced your expertise 

why did you have 

KELLY: to bring that up? 

CARALEE: We're, 

KELLY: we're talking about hanging artwork right now.

Yeah, but look, I was close and it was really spotting. Yes. Working with designers when spotting artwork is very key. We've talked before about how, in our company we have the installers pretty much stay on, on with whomever designer they're, they're with to, [00:04:00] and, and this is a very, I didn't really say that right, but this is a very important part of the art hanging phase you know, we have short designers, we have tall designers, we have men designers, we have women designers. We have everything in between and everybody's different.

CARALEE: I like, I Work Hung really high. One tell than it is two.

KELLY: And it's funny because tall people hang them low. Mm-hmm. And short people hang them high.

Yeah. 

And look, you might hear this somewhere, but it is definitely a floating scale. Everybody says 60 inch centers, or excuse me, 62 inch centers. 63 inch centers. Here's my rule of thumb. Know the environment. My thing is 60 inches to 65. The only time you're gonna hang anything over 65 inch center.

CARALEE: Specifically asked. 

KELLY: Right. Well, thank you for saving me on that one, it has to be personal preference, I personally like hanging art to where my [00:05:00] eye is slightly over center. That way. You have a slight downturn when you're looking into the art.

People like looking up into it, you know, so it's just, it's whatever you like and. Most important part though, is hanging it straight. Yeah, 

CARALEE: I get it. I would say that hanging it straight definitely matters more than the centeredness, but it works together. You know, while there are personal preferences, there is a industry standard, like you said, or at least an industry suggestion, right?

It's also knowing, you know, guard rails or a DA requirements. You do have those and those. Or can play a factor in it, but for the most part, you know, there's a practice. 

KELLY: Yes. And there's a practice. I'm glad you mentioned a DA, we all run into a lot of problems with that.

You would think, the building industry you know, they have to follow guidelines but I can't tell you, it happens [00:06:00] multiple times a year. We go in and I'm gonna use a country club for an example. They have, you know, every, commercial building now has to have a DA.

Restroom. Well, you go in there and the sink top. Is right at a DA. The problem is we have to hang the mirror at that height. We have actually sat the mirror on the sink before and an inspector fell it. 

Mm-hmm. 

Because it was supposed, the bottom of that piece was supposed to be whatever it is, 42, 48 inches, whatever it is.

But, you know, it's, it's crazy and, you know, that's kind of getting in the building and, and stuff like that. But it goes to show when you're hanging out, you definitely have to be aware of your surroundings. Centering, between sconces or centering on a.

Sink, whether we're hanging those mirrors on tile or stone. So I kind of joked a little bit about, the basic things in my toolbox. But something [00:07:00] people really need to have in their toolbox. You definitely need a stud finder. 

Mm-hmm. 

And of course, cordless drills will backup batteries.

You need to have a wide variety of, wall anchors and fasteners. Hanging wire cleats, D-rings, security hardware, and we have the opportunity to hang so many different things. Throughout the year that our toolkit or our hanging kits have become as big as about, as big as our toolkits.

And I almost forgot one of the most important things. A pencil. 

CARALEE: Well, you 

KELLY: need a pencil that can erase 

CARALEE: can do it in Hint. I'll trust you. No, 

KELLY: no, no, no. 

CARALEE: Sharpie, 

KELLY: Yeah. Right, right. Sharpie. But, and you know, that's the reason that our hanging kits have grown so big. I mean, back in the day, you had small hangers and, big hangers,

but then you start hanging into plaster and [00:08:00] brick and stone and concrete. Mm-hmm. And every one of those requires a different type of hardware. Right. Well, you may drill into blocking in one point and you're like, oh, that's a block wall. Well, you try to do it again. And it is different.

You're like, well, why is that? You know, we, we've used concrete nails before. Mm-hmm. Then we've used, you, you couldn't use Concrete Nails because it was, a port form, structural wall. So you can't do that. So then you have to come up with different things. So over the years that, that, that hanging kid and toolbox, whew.

It's grown. 

CARALEE: Remember the time we hung over 300 overlapping dinner plates in a restaurant? 

KELLY: I tell you aside from when you brought that up, that was actually a really, really fun project. 

CARALEE: And that's project was so, so fun and really yes, and turned out phenomenal. But it was just such a interesting, thing we were not initially prepared for.[00:09:00] 

No, I prepared, but like that we needed to. Become prepared for that 

KELLY: wouldn't exactly become prepared for. Because if you remember the client called me and said, Hey, we really wanna do this in one of the restaurants. And I'm like, what is this? Because it was a rendering, right? I'm like, well, what is that?

Well, those are porcelain plates. And I'm like, are you shelving them? Or how are we gonna do that? Well, that's your problem. Like, okay. And yeah, that took some thought and ingenuity. But, you know, and it was fun and for sure it was, there were so many cool aspects to that job.

And it was such, an experience for us. We had so many men on the job and we had so many different guys doing so many different things from decals in every room in a hotel [00:10:00] to fish, on standoffs off a wall. Branding irons hanging from the ceiling in the bar 

belts.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. The belts were wrapping the bar. The bull. Oh yeah. The bull's hanging. Wait a minute. I think we may have already talked about that. Oh. If we haven't, we haven't, but I'm sure it's gonna come up because we like you talking 

CARALEE: about that project.

KELLY: That, was fun. Mm-hmm. And I like fun because I can teach anybody. To hang artwork. 

CARALEE: Mm-hmm. 

KELLY: That has basic, basic math skills. What, 

CARALEE: how many years did it take you to teach together? 

KELLY: Yo, now it's not turning it back at you, right. 

Nobody, 

It really takes a different mentality to be an art installer.

Mm-hmm. And I'm only. Changing up on my furniture installer to art installer because being an art installer, there [00:11:00] is a lot of calculation going on. Sure. I mean, it goes from not only mathematical, to, situational and. You have to go in. 'cause there's a lot of times to where a client gives us the spec sheet.

Whether it's, layout or room number here go do it. They're not even there. Call me if you have a problem. Yeah. Well it's also Don't call me. Yeah, yeah. See it. That's basically what they're saying. Just do it. Don't call me. Um. It, but it, there's a lot of thought people think that just hanging a piece of art

is putting one nail on the wall. And by the way. It is not putting one nail in the wall. 

CARALEE: Right. 

KELLY: You know, people listen, it's two hooks. It's whether it's security, art, conventional hang, whatever, cleats. Just take the time to do it right, because I will go crazy. 

CARALEE: Well, that really leads us into talking about placement because there's a difference between a very thoughtful layout and [00:12:00] one that's rushed, and how that's instantly noticeable.

But, you know, and that can be one piece or multiple pieces, so, you know what, what's the best way to approach that? 

KELLY: Well, I'm, I'm gonna use the, carpenter's line here. Measure twice, cut once. My dad, I grew up listening to my dad tell me that, it's funny how you apply that to your life later on in different situations, the things your parents tell you especially hanging art because it's so precise, it's a statement.

CARALEE: Yeah. 

KELLY: And 

CARALEE: it's very particular. Right. And not tricky, it's just that it needs to be particular and it needs to be precise. 

KELLY: Alright. Look, the standoff. 

CARALEE: Mm-hmm. 

KELLY: Okay. If you're off. Record of an inch. Mm-hmm. Guess what? Yeah. You're not hiding it. Correct. You will not hide it, and that's the thing.

Sure. If you, hang a conventional piece of art with two hooks. If they want it moved, no problem. You got two little pinholes in there. Those are, you can touch those up [00:13:00] easy. You're hanging in a standoff or you're hanging a cleat or you're hanging security hardware.

You have to think. If that's not perfect, there's a hole in the wall. Yeah. And then I mean, you want to be honest. Let's look at it. Who's paying for that? If I screwed it up, I'm having to pay for it. I don't wanna have to pay a drywall man to patch the wall and then have a painter come in and paint it.

Or a wallpaper. Oh gosh. Especially wallpaper or Venetian plaster. A glass tile, porcelain tile, whatever it is. So. That's what I'm saying, and, and even how much I elevate being an installer. Mm-hmm. Being an art installer is even next level because you're not only thinking about your job, you're thinking about every other job that's out there

there's no room for error. If you bring a so in and set it, on one side of the room and fluff it and do all that, and the client comes in and [00:14:00] goes, that's on the wrong side. 

CARALEE: Okay. No, because what do you do? You pick it up, move to the other side, fluff skirt again, do all 

KELLY: that artwork's not that way.

CARALEE: Well, and I think, you know, just to kind of interject too, you know, I think that that's. Specificity in that, you know, preciseness is also kind of what led you to having an art installation company and COD interiors that, solely is responsible for the art installation aspect they do go together.

KELLY: Every installer here can hang over. 

Exactly. 

Speaker 3: We started art installation company for the specific reason of, we had so many clients and art consultants call us we've been hanging art for, 40 years. Just like this project in Texas, with the plates.

Right now is, and well, lemme say probably two, two years ago, three years ago when it started, there's so much specialty [00:15:00] stuff going on. Mm-hmm. And I saw a need as I did with Cardell interior installations for an installation company that gets it. There are plenty of folks out there, just like, there's plenty of installation companies out there.

They do an absolutely fantastic job. 

KELLY: Mm-hmm. 

But the things we've seen, the things we've had to do, I mean, you can go from hanging an acrylic airplane from the ceiling. We hung the Boston boat. 

CARALEE: Like schematic? Yeah, the schematic. 3D schematic. 

KELLY: Three, 

CARALEE: 3D schematic boat.

KELLY: So as you walk down the boat, you see the insides of the boat flowers, leaves. We've hung from California to Pennsylvania to Dubai. I mean, there's always things that, are so much different. And if you listen to our podcast with Kevin Chambers about, the sculptural part of it,

that is another reason that art installation company was swarm, so that artists can [00:16:00] focus on what they do. 

CARALEE: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 3: Look, you make it, give it to me to take it home. Yeah. You know, whether it be a photographer, whether it be a sculpture, fabricator, whatever that is. Let them do you. You know, like designers, hey, we're gonna let you do you, we'll just make it happen 

CARALEE: for you.

No, exactly. 

KELLY: The same thing with art. It's like, look, you did your job, now let us bring it flow. And it gives us an opportunity to. Explain all over to, help in any way that we can. 

CARALEE: Well, talking about that, let's, touch on trickier installs real quick.

And then we definitely have to talk about what security hardware is, but for, oversized artwork that standoffs or unique hardware. How do you approach that? What do you look for? 

KELLY: Did you hear the heavy side there? 

CARALEE: There's a lot of heavy sight. 

KELLY: Believe it or not, I can speak of what's actually happening at this, this time mm-hmm.[00:17:00] 

Is, client ordered a 14 foot by 10 foot painting to go in a Miami, lobby. Unfortunately the lobby's on the. Fourth floor. You can imagine a 14 foot by 10 piece of art. It's not going on an elevator, it's not going, up the steps. So we're working through that. We've basically had to take it apart.

CARALEE: Yeah. 

KELLY: We brought it back. The framers took the frame apart. We were basically having to rech reframe. Once we get it up there and rehang it 

CARALEE: sometimes happens on site. 

KELLY: And look, I, I promise you, I never want to take a framer shop. Never, ever. That's what they do. I don't wanna do it.

Unfortunately, this time we were having to do that. Yeah. Uh, and in the same building we're hanging, additional art. We're hanging, uh, sculptures, 200 sculptures in another part of the lobby. The other artwork is just with security hanging artwork which is the T lock [00:18:00] system of the T Ranch.

If, anybody's ever been to a hotel and looked at the artwork on the wall, 

CARALEE: not about taking it off 

KELLY: yeah. You're not gonna have it. You gotta have that. Tear wrenches. Tear wrenches are magical. You have to have that for public areas. Years ago with metal frames that had a key lock system where you turn the art. Then they found that that was damaging the walls p lock systems are great. In a commercial setting or a high traffic setting. You definitely gotta use those. 

CARALEE: So, just to wrap it up, much like with, installing furniture, even with the best prep things can happen on install day.

How do you approach, the unexpected when that happens? Flexibility. 

KELLY: I mean the point blank flexibility, you have to be. Prepared for anything. Now, don't get me wrong, you can't prepare for every single thing that would go wrong, but you can have enough preparation.

There's that word again, to anticipate. You bring in extra [00:19:00] cleats, multiple drill beds, because you can't assume it's always gonna be. Right, there could be a, structural wall behind the draw wall that nobody knew about

CARALEE: so what are some things designers or project managers can really do, to help you and just to make the process smoother for everyone? 

KELLY: That's a great question. Really provide accurate artwork dimensions. 

Mm-hmm. 

If you have floor plans, send them to me. Let me look at your dimensions to make sure.

Sorry, not saying that you haven't done that, but you know, there's a lot of times it's always great to have extra set of eyes on, on a plan. Do me a favor. Confirm the wall material. Tell me if it is anything unusual. Uh, tell me if it's Venetian plaster, tell me if it is the focus. Yeah, tell me if the ball's back.

You know, just, and it sounds simple and it kind of is, but a lot of people don't know to do that. Only thing else I can say is just label your pieces. Simple as that. 

CARALEE: [00:20:00] All right, well there you have it. So from, you know, laser levels to security screws, a flawless art installation is going to be part math, part muscle, and part magic.

Well, it all comes down to simple 

KELLY: truth. If it's not straight, it is not right. Precision is how we respect the piece and the person who created it. 

CARALEE: Well, if you like today's episode, be sure to follow us. Leave a review and share this with someone who still eyeballs their nail placement, and we will try to forgive them.

KELLY: Hang it straight or go home.